First published
at Global Dialogue
Qingzhi Huan is
professor of comparative politics at Peking University in China. In 2002-3 he
was a Harvard-Yenching Visiting Scholar at Harvard University, USA and in
2005-6 Humboldt Research Fellow at the University of Mannheim in Germany. His
research focusses on environmental politics, European politics as well as left
politics. He authored and edited a number of books on these issues including A
Comparative Study on European Green Parties in 2000 and Eco-socialism as
Politics. Rebuilding the Basis of Our Modern Civilisation in 2010.
He is
interviewed by Christine Schickert, the administrative director of the Research
Group on Post-Growth Societies at the Friedrich Schiller University Jena,
Germany and assistant editor of Global Dialogue.
CS: Climate change has become one of the
most talked about political issues in recent years, at least in the countries
of the Global North. Could you describe the role this discussion plays in
Chinese politics and society today?
QH: Dealing
with global climate change as one of the major issues of international
environmental politics has traveled quite a long way since the signing of the
UN Framework Convention on Climate Change(UNFCCC) at the Rio summit in 1992.
Generally speaking, like most of the other developing countries, China’s
position on combating climate change is clear and coherent – it is called the
“Principle of Common but Differentiated Responsibility” (CBDR).
First of all,
climate change is a common challenge or crisis for the whole of human society
rather than just for advanced or developing countries; secondly, the so-called
advanced countries or regions, especially the EU and the US, should take on
their main historical responsibilities by offering or transferring necessary
resources and technologies to the developing countries; thirdly, developing
countries, including China, should make increasing contributions to global
climate change control and adaptation in accordance with their growing
capacities.
Based on this
policy position, China’s participation in international climate change politics
over the past years can be divided into three stages: pre-1992, 1992-2012,
2012-now. Up until 2012, the dominant understanding was that it was the
advanced countries like the EU countries and the US which were to take
immediate actions.
Since 2012, the
Chinese government gradually updated or shifted its position towards
international cooperation on climate change, especially under the framework of
the UNFCCC. The best example here is the new role of China in reaching and
implementing the Paris Agreement.
To be honest,
the major impetus for this adjustment of the Chinese policy position does not
stem from the signing and implementation of the Paris Agreement but comes from
implementing the national strategy of promoting the construction of an
eco-civilization. Briefly speaking, marked by the 18th National Congress of the
Communist Party of China (CPC), the modernization of “national ecological
environment governance system and governance capacity” has been recognized as
one of the top political and policy goals for the CPC and the Chinese
government, and joining international cooperation on climate change more
actively is one ideal symbolic case to show their political willingness.
For instance,
China is also paying more and more attention to the implementation of the UN
Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD) by organizing several important,
related international activities in 2019-20.
CS: Environmental protection is not a
new issue in China. In 1972, China, unlike other countries ruled by socialist
parties, took part in the United Nations Conference on the Human Environment,
where a number of principles and recommendations concerning environmental
protection were agreed upon. Could you sketch developments and changes in
China’s environmental policies since then?
QH: It is true
that China’s environmental protection as a public policy formally started in
1972, when the Chinese delegation attended the Stockholm Conference on Human
Environment. As a result, in 1973, China held its first national conference on
environmental protection and set up a national office in charge of this policy
issue. Since then, China’s environmental policy has experienced at least four
stages of development: 1973-89, 1989-92, 1992-2012, and 2012-now.
In the first
stage, with the formation and implementation of the “reform and opening-up”
policy in 1978 under the political leadership of Deng Xiaoping, environmental
protection quickly became a prominent policy issue, and consequently,
“environment protection as a basic state policy” was officially recognized in
1983 and has been one of the key policy guidelines for China’s environmental
protection until today. During the second stage, under the political leadership
of Jiang Zemin, sustainable development became the major expression of the CPC
and Chinese government’s political ecology and environmental governance
strategy.
From 2002 to
2012 – a transition stage in more than one way – under the political leadership
of Hu Jintao, the concept of the “two-pattern society construction”
(resource-saving and environmentally friendly society), put forward in 2005,
was the CPC and Chinese government’s central term of that time. In 2007, the
term “eco-civilization construction” was included in the working report of the
17th National Congress of the CPC.
Since 2012, the
real change is not that “eco-civilization construction” has become the umbrella
word of the CPC and Chinese government’s political ecology and environmental
governance strategy, but rather that environmental protection and governance
are recognized as an integral part of the pursued “socialist modernization with
Chinese characteristics in a new era,” theoretically and practically.
CS: For quite some time now, your work
has focused on the idea of eco-socialism. You argue that “greening” capitalism
is not the answer to the current ecological crisis but neither is “greening”
traditional socialism. Could you elaborate on this argument and explain what
eco-socialism means?
QH: Briefly speaking,
eco-socialism as a green political philosophy includes two major aspects. On
the one hand, it argues that ecological and environmental challenges on the
local, national, and global level, especially under the dominant institutional
framework of contemporary capitalism, are not just partial or temporary
problems or defects, but are inseparable from the framework itself: they follow
the logic of capital proliferation and the protection of the interests of
capital-owners.
In this sense,
various measures under the capitalist regime, the so-called “green capitalism”
or “eco-capitalism,” cannot solve environmental problems. Of course, as Ulrich
Brand and Markus Wissen have expounded clearly in their book The Limits to
Capitalist Nature this does not mean that capitalist measures against
environmental damage, or even “green capitalism,” are totally impossible in
reality (though always implemented in a selective way).
On the other
hand, what is stressed in eco-socialism as a political philosophy is that it is
a new type of socialism, or an updated version of socialism, and thus different
from a simplified or falsified greening of traditional socialism. It is worth
noting that the scientific socialism or communism that Karl Marx and Friedrich
Engels suggested nearly two centuries ago is an ideal which has so far not been
realized, whether in the former Soviet Union or in today’s China. And this
ideal cannot be established in any country or region of the world in the
foreseeable future.
This implies
that what we are imagining or striving for is an eco-socialist orientation of
our contemporary world rather than a totally new socialist society. In other
words, one of the main tasks for eco-socialists today is to make clear why
various measures under the capitalist regime will eventually fail to solve the
problems that they claim to solve, and why various initiatives of eco-socialism
as real or radical alternatives can indeed bring about substantial change in
all societies, so that “another world is really possible.”
CS: In many discourses that I have
followed, eco-socialism is discussed as an alternative to green capitalism with
its own vision of the future that not only offers solutions for the ecological
crisis but also addresses issues of inequality; it aims at connecting
environmental justice with social justice. But you argue that eco-socialist
concepts at the moment don’t seem attractive to people. Why is that?
QH: Admittedly,
the concept of eco-socialism is still not as popular as many people may expect
or argue, not only in capitalist countries but also in socialist countries
including China. In my opinion, there are various reasons for explaining this
anomaly. Firstly, eco-socialism as a political ideology and public policy is
still very much affected by the stained reputation of traditional socialism in
the former Soviet Union and Eastern European countries, which were obviously
unsuccessful in institutionalizing the socialist ideas and values and in
dealing with environmental issues, as Saral Sarkar has convincingly analyzed in
his book Eco-socialism or Eco-capitalism?
Moreover, the
hegemony of neoliberalism throughout the world after the collapse of the
socialist bloc in the early 1990s and its political and ideological propaganda
have undoubtedly been a success, making the majority of people believe that
there is indeed no alternative to capitalism. Most interestingly and/or
regrettably, the economic and financial crisis of 2008 in Europe and the US
also did not substantially improve the structural situation for radical or
alternative politics, including eco-socialism. The rise and growing popularity
of “green capitalism” or “eco-capitalism” in recent years can be considered as
supporting evidence for this argument.
Secondly, as
far as China is concerned, the competing political and policy interpretation of
“eco-civilization construction” and “socialist eco-civilization construction”
is a good example to illuminate that eco-socialism is far from being an
established political ideology and political ecology. One deep divergence is
whether or not a socialist orientation or direction is an institutional
precondition for modernizing the environmental protection and governance system
of today’s China.
From an
eco-Marxist perspective, over-emphasizing the introduction of the so-called
modern institutions or mechanisms for environmental protection and governance
from the US and the EU would be at the risk of neglecting the socialist
reshaping of the whole society which is essential for a future socialist
eco-civilization.
CS: What is needed to make eco-socialism
more attractive as a vision for a future society?
QH: Needless to
say, this is an urgent and very challenging task for eco-socialists today.
First of all, socialist/green-Left political parties and politics are still the
major forces to make the eco-socialist vision for a future society more
desirable and attractive among the public, and lots of work can be done by
them. For instance, an encouraging message from the European Parliamentary
elections of 2019 is that the European electorate, especially the young
generation, are holding quite a supportive position towards combating climate
change and other global environmental issues, but the Left as a whole did not
benefit too much from it.
Secondly,
international dialogue and collaboration among academics on all issues relating
to eco-socialism should be further strengthened. Of course, it should be a more
equal and open-minded, two-way process between the West and the developing
countries. To be frank, China has been a “good” student of the West over the
past decades in the sense of doing its best to imitate what the advanced
nations have done or are doing to modernize the country. From now on though,
China needs to be a more independent and reflective partner of the
international academic community, focusing on how to really make the country
better.
Thirdly, one of
the key tasks to make eco-socialism more attractive, especially in China, is to
make “Socialism with Chinese Characteristics in a New Era” more attractive.
From my point of view, a crucial way is to consciously introduce and implement
the principle and policy of “socialist eco-civilization construction.”
CS: You distinguish between “growing
economy” and “growth economy,” the latter being dependent on continued economic
growth, something that seems detrimental to solving the ecological crisis. What
does this distinction mean in regard to China?
QH: I used the
term “growing economy” in 2008 to conceptualize the nature of economic
development in China at that time, to show how I somewhat differ from Takis
Fotopoulos, a London-based Greek thinker, who analyzed whether sustainable
development is compatible with globalization by looking at developments in
China.
My major
argument is as follows: both in terms of the legitimacy, desirability, and
sustainability of resource support and environmental capacity, the economic
growth rate of China at the beginning of the 21st century was to a large extent
necessary or defendable. Of course, the overall situation of China’s economic
development has changed dramatically over the past decade and is currently
facing an even more challenging situation today owing to the trade dispute/war
with the US.
The real
question in this regard is whether or not the Chinese economy is gradually
moving towards a growth economy as Takis Fotopoulos has defined it. My
reflection is that there is still no simple answer to this question. On the one
hand, the annual economic growth rate of 6-7% since 2015 is almost half what it
was ten years ago (11.4% in 2005), indicating that China is continuously
optimizing its economy in line with the different stages of development, and,
at least for the central and western regions of China, that an appropriate
economic growth rate is still necessary or maintainable in the near future.
On the other
hand, considering the economic aggregate of China today – according to the
World Bank, it is 13.608 trillion US dollars in total and 15.86% of the whole
world in 2018 – even an annual growth rate of around 5% may bring about wide
and tremendous impacts on our ecological environment. This is the very reason
why we argue that an eco-socialist perspective or “socialist eco-civilization
construction” has the potential to make a contribution to better combine the
necessity of meeting the basic needs of common people and protecting the
ecological environment: more ecologism and more socialism.
CS: In European countries and in North
America, the idea of a green capitalism is the mainstream answer to the current
ecological challenges. What could they gain from alternative visions of the
future like the one you put forward?
QH: Arguably,
“green capitalism” or “eco-capitalism” is the most practical or even “rational”
approach to deal with the current ecological challenges in European countries
and in North America, because, thanks to the hierarchical international
economic and political order and the increasingly wide acceptance of the
“imperial mode of living” in developing countries, these “advanced” countries
can manage to use the global resources and sinks to their own advantage. If
such a structural configuration remains unchanged, one can imagine that there
will be little possibility for the world to move towards an eco-socialist
future.
However, it
seems that this configuration has indeed become socially and ecologically
problematic in recent years. On the one hand, following the economic rise of
several major developing countries including China, it is becoming more and
more difficult for the US and European countries to maintain the status quo of
the international order, which will threaten not only their position of
hegemony in the traditional sense but also their green model of
“eco-capitalism.” In other words, there will be less and less space or
possibilities in reality for these “advanced” countries to maintain the good
quality of their local environment while continuing to enjoy a high level of
material consumption.
To some extent,
the increasing tensions today between China and the West led by the US can be
interpreted in this way. On the other hand, more and more developing countries,
especially the emerging economies like China, are taking the ecological
environment problems seriously for different reasons. This implies that there
will be more and stricter restrictions from developing countries on the
acceptance of “dirty” capital and technology, let alone of waste and garbage,
as the dispute over waste import between the Philippines and Canada has clearly
shown.
In both senses
mentioned above, in my opinion, the principles and ways of thinking of
eco-socialism can contribute in making European and North American countries
eventually realize the limits and defects of “green capitalism” or
“eco-capitalism.” Solving local or short-term problems while others pay the
costs needs to end, and a process of radical social-ecological transformation
needs to be initiated as soon as possible. A more just world and more equal society
are the precondition for a cleaner environment.